Lotro Insomniax Kin ~ View topic

Site Admin Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 473

A recent post to the kin forums. which will give you a idea of the nitty gritty of how we play.

OMFG how long is this post?
The below is not what is best for me, for my friends, for the officers, its fair for the kin as a whole. And fair is one of the main things this kin has always been based around. So... put your feet up, and here goes.

Stuff needs to change.
For two reasons, the games changing and we have merged with some other kins, and recruited people from other kins who are used to doing things differently. So we need to get back on track to the way things where intended. As most of you will remember, this kin originally formed mostly because we were independent, self reliant, and like things worked that way.

There's things that still aren't the way they were intended to be within this kin. But theres only so many hours in the day. So things get left until they "need" to be changed,enforced or clarified..

So until somethings "start" to fall apart, I'll normally let it slip until something needs to be changed "before" the cart tipples over.

Atm we are at one of those times.. I'm getting complaints in from people about things. And the games going to undergo major changes tomorrow. Put the two together and we need to establish rules before then... IE NOW.

Large kins work, due to people thinking ahead, and problems being fixed before they happen, Not after everything's screwed. So now is the time to address these problems.
And literally i mean NOW,, not next week or after a week of debating shit and theres a list of problems caused. So I'm going to start revolutionizing the kin and how things work within the kin NOW, with some major changes.

In future, I will try to give you more warning, and bring stuff up for discussion, but from the complaints received today, its just hit me, on how much shit will happen soon, if things aren't changed.

So...
Read some of the stuff changing, and the how's and why's .
Tomorrow I'll flick this thread to public.

The main issue is loot, looting, crafting, and a fair distribution of those things.

Farming, selling, and cash making.
Everyone needs money.
There's several play styles

Some people like to..

1. Mine, and sell there ore for their cash fix.
2. Camp named mobs for craft parts to sell for their cash fix.
3. Camp and farm mobs for craft parts to craft items to sell the items on the AH.
4. Quest in ettenmoors for tokens, and sell the tokens for 400s each.
5. Farm for rare recipe's for selling on the AH.
6. Buy and resell from the AH.

But whatever you do, you need to have a source of income, repairs cost money, gear costs lots of money, hope potions etc etc.. You need a income. You need to be self sufficient. A kin isn't a donor bank, you can leach blood from until its dry. This kin was formed on the basis of people need to be self sufficient.

If people want to farm for recipe's and sell them on the AH thats great.
If people want to farm ore and sell that on the AH great.
If people want to farm crit items and sell them on the AH great.
If people want to craft a item to sell that on the AH for cash great.
If people want to buy stuff from the Ah for 4g and sell it again for 5g thats great.

But the problems come where people mine ore and sell that on the AH for cash, then goto a kin crafter and ask for discounted crafting or free crafting without providing parts, because their parts are sitting on the Ah, or they are too lazy to go get the items needed. OR, people play 3-4 hours a week, and expect to still have all the leet gear hand delivered to them, while the crafters run around all week earning money to pay for it for them.And these things really piss off the crafters/resellers, as you can imagine.

The definition of a kin crafter.

IS...

A crafter in the kin... that if you provide ALL the parts to, will make you the item for free. FREE !!! At no cost to you, and no cost or profit to the crafter.

IT IS NOT

A crafter in the kin who provides the whole kin with all their gear ready made for free or discounted prices, while being forced into poverty and struggling to even buy traveling rations.

If you want a item, the only way you are allowed to get it is to ask a crafter what is needed to make it. And provide All THE PARTS, including ore, ingots, recipes, crit items, beryls, the ancient scroll of lore for the extra 10% crit, and anything else required.

If you don't want to farm mobs all day for your required crafting components, fine, do what you enjoy and buy your items from the AH. But don't expect or even ask, for any freebies or discounted prices..

so... DO NOT...!

1. Ask a kin crafter to make you something for free.
2. Ask a kin crafter to make you something for gold.
3. See a item on the Ah and ask to buy it at a discounted price.
4. Ask for a item to be made and provide 1/2 the parts.

Kin GM Craftrers
What IS expected from you, is that you give items the max possible % chance of critting. Do not waste peoples materials crafting unless you have a max crit chance. So...

1. If you are going to craft something for someone escecially with 1x USE RECIPES (With expensive parts) if you are NOT GM AND have a critted ancient steel tool and a ancient +10% scroll you must tell inform the person you are crafting for that you do not have max crit % chance.. If you are a

Jeweler.
Metalsmith / Armorer
WeaponSmith or...
Woodworker
Tailor

2. If the kin has a GM crafter of the above crafts, Its important that the world and the game stops, until they have their GM critted crafting tool. You need to help them with this very very important thing. Or everyone in the kin suffers.

Whether than means chipping in for recipes, or farming runs just for the craft item needed for the tool. If GM's don't have critted tools shortly after hitting GM, something is wrong! Its that important!

Crafts not essential to have a tool as soon as hitting GM are the ones that don't craft expensive one use recipes that use expensive parts. These crafters can get there own tools, the normal way, and don't get put on the "must have a tool now" list..

IE
Miner.
Scholar
Forester
Cook
Farmer

If you are a GM of the "must have a tool now" crafts.. advise us here with a reply, and in kin chat in game. The game will stop for you. And make sure you have a tool very very soon, and that you don't waste any craft items or recipe's until you have it.

Looting Crafting Items/Components
Craft looting items are not considered "normal loot" and do not fall into "normal loot" looting rules.

Here your talking about items that range from 3g -> 30g, they are a big item and a big deal.

So, I don't really care if you "Need" the item or not. The items are too rare and too expensive.

Half the time people need the item, to make something that they don't need, so they can sell the item they don't need on the AH. So even they didn't need it really.

So all craft items are to be dealt with fairly. EG...

How to loot soloable mobs.
Its a solo mob, so do it solo, If another kin want to farm the same mob, get them to send you a tell, when they are finished, so you can solo it yourself. Or if you must, goto duo loot rules.

How to loot Duoable mobs.
If you "need" a hoartusk horn for example, then go duo it with someone, First time it drops you both roll need, whether the other person needs it or not, the one that gets it gets it, and then on the next drop they press pass. From then on, you take turns on drops.. You don't keep pressing need, and get lucky and win 10 in a row, while the other person doesn't get any. If you have to leave before everyone has a equal amount of drops. Hand over a dropped item, to make sure you leave with less than the other person and not more. IE if you have 3, they have 2, and you have to leave, its not fair you leave before they get their "due" drop, so hand em one, so you leave with 2 and they get left with 3... If you have 1, and they have 0, and you have to leave before another drops to even it up, hand over the one you have and leave with none.
Do not loot and leave.

How to loot a 3some. heres where the fun starts, 3somes are always fun.
For bigger stuff, or stuff with multiple spawn points. like maybe gnashmaw, the spider, skybreaker, ETC.
Same procedure as duo..
First drop everyone rolls need.
Second drop, the two that doesn't have 1, rolls need.
Third drop, the two that have one both press pass.
.. if you go for another one each.
Forth drop, everyone rolls need.
Fifth drop, the two that doesn't have 2, rolls need.
Sixth drop, the two that have two already both press pass.
If you need to leave before everyone else has the same as you, hand over the item, Don't leave before they have got there due drop, if you have to leave hand over a item, and make sure you leave with the least, not the most, DON'T LOOT AND LEAVE.

Need a full fellow?
If you need a full fellow. camping a mob for 6 loots with the same fellow, is pretty dam hard cause it will take too long. So... arrange something fair, BEFORE YOU ALL GO OUT. something like,
1. "all roll need" Luck of the draw.
2. The items worth 24gold, divided by 6. thats 4 gold each. Mind if i loot it, and pay you each 3g or 4g?..
3. All roll need, and the winner pays the others 3g-4g each.
4. The item's sold on ah by the person who ends up with it, and when sold, the moneys divided and posted to the others.

Just make sure that everyone there camping named mobs, leaves with a equal amount or a equal chance. I don't care if you want to make a item to sell, whether you want to make a item to wear, or whether you want to simply AH the crafting item.

Everyone did equal work. Everyone gets equal reward...

WITH ONE EXCEPTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some crafts need to jump the cue and get "critted ancient steel tools" as mentioned above. but of course this is arranged before you leave, and everyone knows the fellow is only for getting xxx person the item for their tool

Fellowships and looting...

Theres many reasons people fellow. And theres many different types of loot. And some loot means different things to different people depending on their craft or class.

So the main looting rule is
THE LOOT RULES AND LOOT SYSTEM MUST BE CLEAR, DISCUSSED, AND AGREED BY ALL. before the fellow ship goes anywhere.! before any loot drops.!

If someone leaves and someone else comes into the fellowship. You need to explain to them what the loot system is, and they need to be happy with it. Or you need to get someone else.

It doesn't matter what the loot system is so much, as long as everyone knows what the loot system is, and obeys the system that they agreed to at the start.

Loot is important, treat it as such, and take the 5 mins of effort, setting it up when the fellowship is formed.

But basically for kin fellow i suggest.
KIN ONLY FELLOWS.
Need / Greed / Pass

Items/ general loot. Weapons armor etc. vendor crap.
Need if you will wear it now, and its a reasonable upgrade, Greed if you want to sell it.
Pass if you cant be bothered with it.

Quest items and class items, teals.
Need if you need it for a quest. Or if its a class/teal item you need that you don't have, that you will wear there and then.
Greed if you've done the quest, or wont be wearing the item on this character. If you want loot for your alt, get it while playing your alt.
Pass if you cant be bothered with it.

Hides, recipes, beryls.
Hides and beryls are used by other crafts not just tailors or jewelers. Even if your craft doesn't need them, when you need something made you will need to provide the parts for what you need made. Recipes, they are expensive, often 4-7g each. So its not a matter of who can use the recipe, its more a matter of who can use the item the recipe can make. A guardian tailor, having exclusive rolling rights on a tailor recipe so they can craft the item they don't need, and sell the item on the Ah for 30g, just doesn't work.
So recipes hides and beryls, just press NEED.
And who ever wins the recipe, be happy for them, don't flood them with tells in combat begging for the recipe, or for them to sell it to you cheap. If you don't win a item, move on quietly. better still, don't even look who won the item, switch off the loot spam, what you end up with in your bag at the end of the day is what you end up with.

Ettenmoors. When in rome do as the romans do. In ettenmoors the general etiquette is roll need on everything all the time.

Helegrod Raid Loot
Next patch, all raid loot will be bind on equip, which opens up for more stuff from our raids ending up on the AH which should NEVER end up there.

But most importantly. All class armour sets items will now drop, not just the gloves and boots, and these items will drop randomly off all mobs. not just bosses.
So they will be dropping when its a NEED GREED PASS system...

So same system, if you need it don't have it, and are going to put it on and wear it now, on this character, press need, otherwise press greed.

Items wont be bind on pickup, they will be bind on equip, So if you win a item you don't need, you will be forced to hand it over. And you will receive your one and only warning before your kicked from the kin. If a non kin does it, they will receive similar treatment.

Need on items you need and will wear now on this character
Need on hides beryls and quest items.
Greed/Pass on items you don't need.

Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 183

I still need my 20 percent tool so I will be working on that where I can. Hopefully this new patch will help, but if anyone finds a one use smithing tool hammer recipe with new patch please contact me so I can buy it off you.

Site Admin Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 127

OR if Skybreaker comes down drastically in price and you see one Razz

as i have a few old recipes for them

Kin GM Craftrers
What IS expected from you, is that you give items the max possible % chance of critting. Do not waste peoples materials crafting unless you have a max crit chance. So...

1. DO NOT CRAFT ANYTHING FOR KIN especially with 1x USE RECIPES (With expensive parts) if you are NOT GM AND have a critted ancient steel tool and a ancient +10% scroll. If you are a

Jeweler.
Metalsmith / Armorer
WeaponSmith or...
Woodworker
----

Guess this dont apply to Tailors, or have you forgotten about us.

Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 183

That means we don't have a weaponsmith until i get my crit hammer Laughing

But seriously I will be crafting stuff asked of me until I get my crit hammer, I am the only weaponsmith at GM and we still need weapons, the 2 percent isn't the end of the world when we lack anyone who has a 20 percent and GM.

Forum Troll Joined: 20 Jun 2007 Posts: 514

Yes Astro as long as people are aware up front that you have 18% tool and they will be missing out on 2% that's ok.
The issues come in when people say they have the best available % when they actually do not... that leads to disgruntled "customers" who feel they weren't presented with the right facts.

Personally 33 or 35% I don't care for weaponsmith BUT for armorer or tailor I do care because I know people who have the 20% tool so I'm more likely to goto them.

Another thing is that although it's reasonable for us to pursue 20% tools for some GMs, I'm not keen to do this for all... in other words just because someone hit GM doesn't mean we should all drop what we're doing and get them a 20% tool when we already have a few reliable & active GMs in their profession.

Tan probably needs to move our comments in this thread to Kin-only section.

Site Admin Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 473

Lol guys yeah I edited it as per the above.